Another important theme of Romeo and Juliet is fate vs. free will. Romeo consistently blames his problems on “the stars” which represent fate. Were Romeo and Juliet doomed to die or could they have had a different destiny if they had made different choices? Similarly, do poor or unfortunate people of today put too much blame for their situation on fate or “bad luck” when they should take responsibility and work harder to take control of their lives? Or, on the other hand, do you believe that we should be more helpful and understanding of those who are less fortunate and recognize that sometimes people fail because of situations outside of their own control?
Juliet and Romeo definitely had their share of bad luck! However, I think that Romeo specifically could've made better decisions. He decided to walk in front of Mercutio causing him to be stabbed and killed, he then decided to kill Tybalt which got him banished. If he hadn't made those decisions maybe Romeo and Juliet could've worked something out to be together. As for people today, it entirely depends on the person. Some of the things that happened to them was more or less not their fault. But there are people in the same situations who got there completely by making poor choices. Regardless of how people got somewhere you should recognize that they are in a rough spot and need help whether they got their on their own or out of misfortune.
ReplyDeleteI agree with you I believe parts of this situation where just out of everybody's hands and there was nothing anyone could really do about it but there were definitely times where romeo was the one to blame.
DeleteI agree, Romeo acts irrationally throughout the book. And after he made those decisions and was banished, he became stuck. I think that he could have looked back at his actions, and noticed the pattern. Maybe then he could've found a way to make things work, and in the end, maybe neither he or Juliet would have died.
DeleteI strongly agree with you. Romeo an Juliet could have had a better life together if both characters, mostly Romeo thought before they acted. They could have had a different ending.
DeleteI agree with you that Romeo makes decisions in the book that aren't completely thought through. I think that lots of tragedies could have been avoided if he had thought them through better. However, I do think that part of the tragedies do have bad luck in them. For example it was bad luck that Romeo wasn't informed of the friar's plan in time which led him to kill himself. Overall, I think that is is most bad decisions making bud bad luck is also at play throughout the story.
DeleteI agree with you that some decisions that were made in the play were not thought through, bad decisions are made, and people are not fortunate. In the play not all of the decisions are made with logic, actions can be made based on emotion then though out after it is done. Today some people are unfortunate and other people's bad decisions are put onto them but people should know when they are in a bad situation and try to come out of it. Other people make bad decisions that affect others and it brings down themselves.
DeleteI agree that Romeo played a big part in a lot of the mistakes in this play. He made too many rash decisions and he should've thought a little more about his actions.
DeleteI agree. Romeo should have minded his own business in the fight between Mercutio and Tybalt. That could have kept him from getting destroyed. Also, I agree that whether or not someone chose or made choices to put them in a bad place doesn't mean that we shouldn't care or help.
DeleteI don't believe in fate, because I don't like the idea that my decisions don't make a difference. In my opinion, you control your attitude towards things, and that's all that's certain in life. That, and taxes. Some decisions made by other's in the story negatively impacted romeo, but he made them worse by killing himself. If he din't act so rash he'd be alive
ReplyDeleteI agree you can always control your attitude, thoughts and actions better and if you master your mind there's nothing you can't do
DeleteI see your point, and I agree that your decisions do make a difference. However, have you considered Juliet's position of marrying Paris? If she hadn't been forced to marry Paris, it is possible Juliet would've had more time to plan an escape with Romeo, and they could've lived happily ever after. In Act III, Scene 5, lines 112-168, it becomes clear that Juliet must marry Count Paris or will be disowned by her parents. Do you think Juliet should have refused to marry Paris, even though she would've been thrown out on the streets (and Juliet is a noble woman who depends on her family)? How would she ever get to be with Romeo? Capulet also made it clear that he would drag Juliet to the altar by force, in which case Juliet truly would have had no control over the situation. Even if Juliet wasn't being forced to marry Paris, at that time it was expected of young noble women to marry (some might argue that was their only purpose, aside from birthing an heir). Ideally, young noble women such as Juliet should marry into a well-off family, which would be arranged by her parents and in which she would have no control.
DeleteAlthough I do think Romeo and Juliet could have made better decisions, some aspects of their lives (namely Juliet's) they couldn't have changed. Juliet's marriage to Paris plays a large role in the tragic end. I believe that we can make decisions that alter our life, but some things are simply out of our hands (such as the parents we have, the situation we were born into, certain genetic dispositions, in some cases our access to education, our inevitable death, etc...).
It's true that some things are inevitable and you can only react to life sometimes. I agree with your thinking about Juliet in that she couldn't do much about Paris. But I disagree that Juliet and Romeo didn't have enough time to plan an escape. They should have at least listened to the friar's advice and seen that their crazy attraction wouldn't last if they stayed that way. They also could have married later and not rushed things so much before their marriage.
DeleteLater, Act 5 Scene 3, Lines 82-91 shows how crazy Romeo's thinking is and it becomes apparent that he didn't even understand Juliet was going to be married to Paris because he hadn't been listening earlier. At this moment, he says it's bad luck. But I think he could have made a much better decision at this point and should have listened to the warning signs he was realizing that maybe things weren't what he thought. Act 5 Scene 3, Lines 97-105 he sees that Juliet is not pale and stil has red lips. He could have at least double checked she was dead. Many instances where he could have turned back.
That is a good point, and I do agree that Romeo and Juliet rushed into marriage. I am actually not sure why they did this, perhaps at the time it was more common to marry someone only a few days after knowing each other. In fact, Juliet would have married Paris after only one or two brief encounters. In Act IV, Scene I, we can see truly how awkward a pair Juliet and Paris make. There is only one-sided attraction, and Paris makes some very possessive declarations, which Juliet only answers in riddles. At least with Romeo, there was a mutual desire for a relationship. Juliet didn't know Romeo for much longer than she knew Paris, so wouldn't marrying Paris be just as rash?
DeleteI 100% disagree. I believe fate is controlled in part by your actions. Romeo could have made better decisions to keep from dying.
DeleteRomeo is annoying, he constantly blames everything else for his problems, when he is the problem. He was acting irrationally the whole time without realizing it, which led to him having to deal with the effect of his actions. You chose how you respond to something, and he always acted without thinking. This whole story happens in a matter of days, not one time did romeo sit and think.
ReplyDeleteRomeo is impulsive and is overcome with emotions many times in the play, and I think it is true that his mistakes do lead to his and Juliet's death but I would also argue that there are inevitable obstacles and problems.
DeleteI don't think that Romeo's actions weren't the only thing that influenced his life. Everyone has to make decisions, and not all of them are going to be the right decision, but everybody's choices shape the world. I don't think that Romeo always made bad decisions, because he made choices for love. He found his soulmate and knew that they weren't supposed to be together, but that didn't stop him for fighting for what he loved and believed in.
DeleteI agree. Romeo is annoying, but he could have change how he chose to deal with the situation.
DeleteI completely agree. I think it's just a way for Romeo to avoid taking responsibility for his actions to blame fate for this mess instead of admitting that he is making the wrong decisions.
DeleteI believe that if our lives were just controlled by a power like fate then what is even the point, no matter what you would do you life would turn out the same. Romeo did not have to kill Tybalt, he could have let the Prince handle it. He also did not have to kill himself, saying that he fell in love with Juliet in five seconds means he could easily find another wife. All of Romeo's problems have to do with the fact that he is very rash and he does not think through what the consequences of his actions will be. Even when Romeo's actions do catch up to him he does not take responsibility for them. Some of the less fortunate today really did just have some terrible things happen to them that were out of their control, but others are just like Romeo they did not think of the consequences behind their actions. When you see someone on the street it is hard to know if you give them money what they will use it for, to better their lives or buy unnecessary things. That is why I believe you should not give money to the people on the side of the road you should give it to shelters or agencies that specialize in getting people back on their feet with a job and a house. It is like that saying, give a man a fish they eat for a day teach a man to fish they will eat for the rest of their lives. By not giving the money to the people directly you are actually helping them by getting them the skills they need to lead a much more productive life.
ReplyDeleteGreat explanation. I agree Romeo's decisions and actions were very un-thought out and his thinking was all over the place. It is important to consider decisions and choices carefully and think like a rational being.
DeleteI agree with you that romeos thoughts were very random and quick to come to. i think that if he really thought about his decisions he would have had better "luck" with how everything turned out, its like what parents always tell us think before you speak/do. I think romeo definitely should have done that because he complains throughout the entire movie/reading that he is having bad luck with everything and how his fate was meant to be bad, well romeo if you would have just sat and thought something out for once maybe your fate wouldn't have ended like it did. But Joachim you made a very valid point.
DeleteI agree that Romeo's situation was impacted mostly by his own actions. Sometimes it is hard to come to reality and realize what your actions did- especially feats as impactful as Romeo's- like killing Tybalt. On the other hand, mental illnesses and other things of the sort, can make this mindset very difficult, and I agree that shelters should be utilized by struggling people.
DeleteI think in general in life, no matter how hard or bad things may seem, there are always other choices to make and you should never just base you emotions solely on any one thing or straight up give up. The fact that we are human beings and have the capability to think about and reflect on our actions, our own thoughts, and our behaviors means we are able to control ourselves a lot better than we think if we can focus our mind and have free will to do things. Romeo and Juliet both exhibit behaviors and characteristics in situations that are very impulsive and illogical. I think if they weren't so emotional about things and didn't over dramatize their lives, they could have planned out their love and marriage better and accepted that they couldn't have everything perfect and get each other exactly how they wanted. Also, in Romeo and Juliet's case, they were rather privileged and better off than most people and so there was no reason for them to commit suicide and forget any opportunity of rebuilding their lives after even if others had died.
ReplyDeleteI agree that Romeo and Juliet both exhibit impulsive behaviors but isn't it also true that those things can be good sometimes being spontaneous and adventurous can be a good thing. On the other hand, there can also be a fine line between being spontaneous and being just stupid.
DeleteIt is easy to say in hindsight what should have been done. We do have the capability as humans to reflect and think about situations, but human nature is often impulsive.
DeleteIn my opinion its a combination of both. Some things just happen or are the way they are even if you didn't cause them. But you can still control the way you approach them. Romeo definitely could have made better choices....um.... he uh..... committed suicide. If he didn't commit suicide or at LEAST waited 5 minutes before deciding to do so, Juliet would've woken up and they would have been happy and everything would've been fine.
ReplyDeleteI agree that if he waited the outcome would have been different. You can choose the way that you approach situations but without all the knowledge you may not know what could have been.
DeleteI think both of their behaviors and choices were very scattered and all over the place. sometimes it can be good to be spontanous but it can also be very dangerous if your not at least a little careful.
ReplyDeleteI agree, but I also feel like even when being careful, some choices won't be considered bad until later, when they were thought to be good choices before.
ReplyDeleteYes, we can all agree that they were victims of some very unfortunate bad luck, But I believe that they brought this upon themselves. If they didn’t overreact and maybe took some time to think things through THIS WOULDN’T OF HAPPENED. I truly don’t think they were doomed to die. They had a choice (lots of choices) and they always made the wrong ones. As for people today, it definitely depends on the situation. For example, some veterans become homeless because when they come back from a battle they might not have a home to live in or a family to come home too, and even though they served for our country they still got handed the shorthand of the stick. But then there are people who have just made poor decisions along the way and ended up on the streets. And people just need to be kind and understanding to each other, because you don’t know the person and what they are going through.
ReplyDeleteI totally agree, and I think some people just have it worse than others. I also think that people can make the right decision but it still lead to a bad consequence, but generally speaking, I think when people make good choices, good things happen to them, but in some cases luck does play a role in life.
DeleteI agree. that they both made some very rash decisions that they didn't think about. I also agree that some people have it worse than others and sometimes they just have bad luck in life.
DeleteI 100% agree with your stance on everything. They had so many chances to make other decisions and didn't. There are many people in many unfortunate circumstances today but that doesn't mean we aren't kind to them.
DeleteExactly, if Romeo waited at least 2-3 minutes before deciding to commit suicide, there would have been no tragedy.
ReplyDeleteUnlike the readers of the play, Romeo had no idea that Juliet was still alive. I do agree that he made a rash decision, but do you see Romeo's perspective? Romeo was so desperate for love that once he found the love of his life, there was no point in living anymore. Even if he had waited a couple minutes before killing himself, there's no way of knowing that tragedy would not exist between Romeo and Juliet.
DeleteI agree that his decision was made way too fast. He did not think it though at all. He didn't even think about what his actions would do to the others. What would Benvolio, his parents, or the friar think? Also, Romeo did not know Juliet at all. They had only been together for a few days. He probably could've gotten over it if Juliet had actually died and he decided not to kill himself. People lose others that they loved even more than Romeo loved Juliet, and everyone eventually makes peace with the fact. Why would they cause people who love them suffering by killing themselves? I can see what Romeo was feeling, but it doesn't justify suicide.
Deleteyeah if wasnt so dramatic and worried about 1 girl he would be fine and couldve found another one he was being a crybaby
DeleteI agree we don't know for certain that there wouldn't be tragedy, but we know THIS specific tragedy of both of them killing themselves wouldn't of happened, because one suicide caused the other.
ReplyDeleteI think that Romeo made lots of stupid decisions, and he eventually had to deal with the consequences which were inevitable because he did such dumb things all the time. The idea of fate bothers me, because then all my actions mean nothing if fate has chosen what's going to happen anyways. Romeo has relied on his sweet talking and good looks his entire life to get everything he wants. He's had everything handed to him, so I don't think he's built much character in his life. Maybe if he would've built morals and seen what's truly important in life, then he wouldn't have died so early in life, just because he thought Juliet was gone forever, didn't mean his life was also over, but he thought it was over so now he's dead.
ReplyDeleteI totally agree I think Romeo skated on thin ice for a very long time and something bad finally happend. I mean think about it, he almost died like 4 times. I also think that they both had roles in the dumb stuff they were doing. But a lot of it was unlucky in my opinion like the note not getting to romeo on time that was unlucky.
DeleteI agree. He wasn't very smart when dealing with the stuff life threw at him. Sure, fate might have given him a bad hand, but there were so many decisions he could have made to make the best of it. His life could have been better than most, but that is not how the story goes, so oh well. He made his choice.
DeleteI believe that when someone like Romeo continues to make bad choices things are eventually going to fall in place as they did. No I do not believe in fate I believe in free will to make choices as one pleases. I think the bad choices he continued to make made his fate. It was his fault! In a relationship, the man should be stronger and assist the women if she is thinking about making a bad decision. Romeo should have toughened up and told Juliet's parents as well as his own that they were getting married. Even before this though Romeo and Juliet should have dated much, much longer so that people cannot question them and so they truly know they are really in love. It is important to give people multiple chances and see peoples side of things before you draw conclusions though. Also, I do believe there is such thing as bad luck and it did catch up to Romeo and his fortunate life!
DeleteI can understand your argument. However, I'm not sure I agree that in a relationship, a man should be the stronger person and have the responsibility of telling the woman if she's making a poor decision. I know that during the time period of Romeo and Juliet, men had more power over women and women had little agency, but it is still up to Juliet if she wants to make a "bad decision." What qualifies a decision as bad?
DeleteIn my opinion, both characters made choices that definitely weren't wise, but neither one is entirely responsible for everything that happened. For example, in Act II, Scene 6, Juliet and Romeo are married. Although Romeo rushed into the marriage, Juliet was just as anxious to get married (or, maybe, consummate their marriage). In Act II, Scene 2, lines 172 - 176, Juliet actually initiates further communication with Romeo by arranging to send a messenger to him, most likely to confirm their marriage.
This all being said, Romeo certainly had more freedom than Juliet to do as he pleased, and was not as restricted by his parents. In that case, he overall made more decisions and it can be argued that he is more at fault for causing the tragedy. Either way, fate wasn't the only antagonist. Romeo and Juliet made choices that lead to their untimely deaths.
I don't think that Romeo's prior decisions made the situation inevitable, as if they had just run away before hand, they could have avoided death. Also, the actions you make are what help determine your fate, and are not meaningless.
Deletei agree with this somewhat, but not completely. We all react to things differently, and the same scenario could end in an infinite number of ways because of the decisions we make. however, sometimes no matter what we do, no matter how much we try and avoid it, it will happen. I do not think romeo and juliet dying in the chambers was fate, but their death would eventually come, that is inevitable.
ReplyDeleteI believe that they could've have a future together, if they went somewhere else to live or something. They really didn't think deeply for a solution to their problems. Yeah, death is destined for each and one of us but Romeo and Juliet caused their own death too early.
ReplyDeleteI believe they could have had a different destiny if they made different choices. If Juliet maybe didn't fake her death and chose to perhaps run away or do something different then they wouldn't both be dead.
ReplyDeleteI think that we should be more helpful and understanding of people and their situations. Many times I have learned that there are circumstances beyond someones control that cause them to be in their current situation. If we all were a bit more understanding and kept in mind that everyone faces difficulty in life and were more helpful it would be a better world. Just try to have compassion for others.
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